tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post7877957135720831638..comments2023-08-11T07:30:30.923-04:00Comments on Public Health Doula: Reply turned post: The nightmarish vision of a baby-friendly hospitalRebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-42654021236138252342013-06-11T19:12:01.446-04:002013-06-11T19:12:01.446-04:00I know I'm super late to this, but thank you f...I know I'm super late to this, but thank you for saying everything I wanted to during the original round of this discussion. I'm so glad I found your blog!Cory Ellenhttp://coryellen.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-84790838456255622422013-03-23T17:53:03.432-04:002013-03-23T17:53:03.432-04:00I am also an IBCLC in a Baby Friendly Hospital and...I am also an IBCLC in a Baby Friendly Hospital and a trained NICU nurse. Nice post. Dead on about the education and informed choice of the parents. BFHI isn't about forcing people to breastfeed. It's about educating about the benefits of breastfeeding and supporting parents who choose to do so. It is about adopting evidenced based practices that facilitate good public health outcomes. It's about not allowing formula companies to market in the hospital setting to a vulnerable population. For the record I was asking my prenatal breastfeeding classes how many had already rec'd formula samples or coupons unsolicited in the mail...100% had. So no need to use health care professional to market products. As for the storage of formula? It's always been kept in a locked stockroom of some kind. It must be checked by central supply to make sure it's not expired etc. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-69587236249561756392012-11-07T21:38:49.956-05:002012-11-07T21:38:49.956-05:00I've got some good things learned from here.
...I've got some good things learned from here. <br />I just wished that most nations now are encouraging breast feeding!Lea@Doula Traininghttp://doulatraininghq.com/teen-supported-doula-experiences/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-43308971499404470532012-09-19T21:24:41.563-04:002012-09-19T21:24:41.563-04:00I can see why some women feel threatened by this, ...I can see why some women feel threatened by this, but if they want to feed their baby formula, bring some:) <br /><br />I used to work postpartum, nurses do give it without asking the mother. Given the fact that it does have negative consequences, it should be treated like a medication, imo. <br />Rachelhttp://www.trainingdoulas.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-52077552358319262772012-08-11T23:10:28.955-04:002012-08-11T23:10:28.955-04:00Really? People are complaining about having to wa...Really? People are complaining about having to wait for a bottle? That's nothing. My son latched on right away (in the recovery room, I had a C-section). Then his bili levels went up and the dr told the nurses I "had to" supplement. Crying, I tried to give him a bottle and he refused (he knew what was what). The nurse then SHOVED a bottle in my son's mouth, causing him to shriek and choke. Once he choked and spit the formula right at her, she gave up and let us be. Well, guess what? His bili levels went down just fine with frequent breastfeeding. When I had my second child (also via C-section, I was denied a VBAC), they refused my requests to see and feed my child for well over a half hour. My husband had to go in more than three times before they finally relented and brought her in. She was perfectly fine and healthy at birth so there was really no excuse. If she had been my first, I might not have been so persistent. Then she, too, was diagnosed with jaundice and was put under the bili lights (which was not my choice). I was only allowed to breast feed her every THREE hours, despite KNOWING that she wanted to feed much more frequently, especially during the day. When I was engorged, I requested to see my own baby and I was told I had to wait 45 mins or AN HOUR before they could take her out from the lights. At one point, I walked in to see my baby and saw her crying under the lights only to have a paci shoved in her mouth. I was horrified and demanded to be able to feed her and hold her. They said she needed to be under the lights. Bullshit. Her levels were lower than my sons and his levels went down without any intervention. At one point, I was in tears due to the pain of being engorged and being at hour two without being able to feed. I went in to get my baby (and yes, I had to walk down to the nursery MYSELF b/c they wouldn't bring her to me, this day two after a C-section) and they wouldn't let me have her even though she was awake and I needed to feed. They suggested I "pump and they could give it to her in the incubator while she was under the lights". Um, no. I'm not pumping so you can give my perfectly latching, two day old baby a bottle while she is not being held or cuddled. I truly believe she didn't need the lights at all. She needs to be held and loved by her mother and frequently fed so she can get those levels down. I told them in no uncertain terms that either they could get her out or I was going to get her out myself. This is MY baby and I AM going to feed her. They relented. Once again, her levels went down after a few days and she was totally fine. Jaundice is very common and I do NOT for the life of me understand why the hospital (St. B's) acts like supplementation and intervention are always the answer. I know that malpractice insurance is very expensive in our state (NJ), but its completely unacceptable to treat mothers this way. Anyway, yeah, there is a lot of lip service paid to breastfeeding promotion at St. Barnabas, but actions speak louder than words.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-67038889010577535072012-08-06T18:01:44.637-04:002012-08-06T18:01:44.637-04:00@Heliconia - Thank you for working in an ethical e...@Heliconia - Thank you for working in an ethical environment!<br /><br />@Anonymous 11:42am: I work in a hospital, so I am there multiple times a week. I did not say that getting the formula is like getting Tylenol - I just said they are both locked up the same way. As I have stated multiple times, making formula "less accessible" and making it "more difficult" to get is for the STAFF who want to throw around unnecessary supplements, not for the MOTHERS. Once again, no one waits half an hour for a bottle in our hospital. I would be surprised even they even waited five minutes. If even the possibility of waiting for a bottle is scary, I suggest mothers request the next bottle well before they think the baby will wake up. Or if the baby wakes up unexpectedly, since these are BF mothers as well, they can BF the baby while waiting for the bottle.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-84040758316086934832012-08-05T11:42:33.524-04:002012-08-05T11:42:33.524-04:00When was the last time you were in the hospital? F...When was the last time you were in the hospital? From personal experience with more than one hospital, I can tell you that it can easily take a half and hour or more to get a Tylenol, so telling me that getting formula is pretty much the same as getting tylenol IS scary. When a proponent of the policy explicitly states that the key to getting women to nurse is to make formula "less accessible" and that they *want* to make it difficult for a nurse to get a bottle of formula for a mother, that is scary, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-48075715286082363502012-08-04T00:38:29.868-04:002012-08-04T00:38:29.868-04:00@anonymous: They have taken down the original FAQ ...@anonymous: They have taken down the original FAQ on the policy so I don't know if there was more information there, but what's left is pretty broad policy, nothing specific. I imagine it will be up to each hospital to set their personal policy. Ours is a simple one page form, signed by any mother who wants to supplement for personal reasons. Mothers who plan to exclusively formula feed from delivery do not need to sign it.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-59919664736655163742012-08-03T23:31:14.311-04:002012-08-03T23:31:14.311-04:00You can still request free samples directly from t...You can still request free samples directly from the formula companies prior to giving birth (or after for that matter).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-71040184559544136262012-08-03T13:20:16.127-04:002012-08-03T13:20:16.127-04:00I have been an OB nurse for the past 30 years and ...I have been an OB nurse for the past 30 years and have 3 children of my own, who were all breastfed initially, but now, wished I could have breastfed even longer than I actually did. This is something that I unfortunately cannot go back and redo.. I have seen first hand that by giving the "free" formula diaper bag to breastfeeding moms and add to that, decreased knowledge of hospital staff, including nurses and doctors, and the lack of support of society in general, contribute to the decreased success rates for breastfeeding mothers once they are discharged from hospital. It wasn't until I decided, as an OB nurse, to increase my knowledge about breastfeeding and become a lactation consultant myself, when I finally realized what was obviously going wrong in our hospital setting as I knew it. For breastfeeding mothers receiving the so-called "free" formula samples in your diaper bag, please understand that it is a 100% marketing tool. If your breastfed baby "needs" the formula after you are discharged either by choice or by need, then go buy it. It's that simple and not hard to locate. The good news is that more and more professionals working in the "baby business" are becoming more and more educated and supportive. With this knowledge and support, will hopefully bring higher success rates once mom and baby leave the hospital. I am so thankful for the hard working advocates out there, working on a daily basis, to help build the network of support for mother's choosing to breastfeed. I am seeing more and more lactation consultants staffed in hospital settings, in pediatricians offices, private practices. I am seeing great WIC support for breastfeeding mothers. I am seeing (just recently), a law being passed, that insurance companies will be providing coverage for the needed breast pumps for mothers choosing to go back to work. Although we have a long way to go, I have seen great changes in the past 5 years for the better. So to complain about locking up "supplies" on a nursing unit is ridiculous! Let's move beyond the pettiness and let our country be the "showcase" around the world, raising healthier, smarter babies which has been scientifically proven. Babies were born to be breastfed, however for some, either by choice or for those overcoming challenges and may not be able to breastfeed, our society should not feel guilty about promoting and supporting what is BEST for our babies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-61506200976915697002012-08-03T13:19:18.005-04:002012-08-03T13:19:18.005-04:00AMEN!!!! (As a neonatologist, I apologize for the...AMEN!!!! (As a neonatologist, I apologize for the appalling experience you had in the NICU...)HeliconiaPinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14915663637378220671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-82505991524416282332012-08-03T13:14:37.499-04:002012-08-03T13:14:37.499-04:00I am a doctor. We don't promote ANY companies...I am a doctor. We don't promote ANY companies in my hospital, formula or otherwise. Why? Because I am a doctor, not a paid advertisement. Sure they need to advertise. The formula companies have a plethora of opportunities to do so - TV, radio, billboards, mailings, emails, web ads etc. My hospital is not an outlet for advertising ANY product...HeliconiaPinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14915663637378220671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-26163923312803100792012-08-03T10:18:55.933-04:002012-08-03T10:18:55.933-04:00"I am breast feeding and supplementing, which..."I am breast feeding and supplementing, which is working very well for me and my 3 month old. My concern about the push to not give free samples of formula is for those families that are actually in need. I was given free samples of 3 brands, of course I only supplement with one, but the samples I was given saved me quite a bit. <br />I think samples should be offered to mothers, that way no one feels pressured to take or to have to ask if they really need it. <br />On the issue of formula companies giving the samples to hospitals to distribute, duh, they're a company, they have to "advertise"."<br /><br />Why do you feel that you or any other parent is entitled to any free samples. All babies need diapers (for the most part), but you don't see me getting upset that I am not getting any free diaper samples. Yes, formula can be expensive, but mothers do have another option: breastfeeding. I need to eat to be able to produce breast milk, but I don't go around asking for free food samples to make sure that I eat enough. If you want to formula feed, fine, but people need to stop thinking that they are entitled to free samples.Parenting Patchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056734441037561306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-55575473207814450162012-08-03T02:02:55.961-04:002012-08-03T02:02:55.961-04:00This is a great post! Very informative!
@Khyrae...This is a great post! Very informative! <br /><br />@Khyraen, you are spot on. <br /><br />I would add to the discussion that in order to be truly 'Baby Friendly', hospitals are going to have to work much harder on being 'Mother Friendly' and birth friendly in particular. Crappy birth experiences too often lead to crappy breastfeeding experiences, something totally ignored by hospital administrators.Lorienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754384948016954357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-73881851484210442592012-08-03T00:53:13.268-04:002012-08-03T00:53:13.268-04:00Can you explain more about what mothers have to si...Can you explain more about what mothers have to sign and what the policy will be in NYC? Is it all mothers that ask for formula, those that ask for personal reasons, those that need it for medical reasons..?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-20844434665565710762012-08-03T00:18:05.900-04:002012-08-03T00:18:05.900-04:00@Rebecca - I'll be honest and tell you that fo...@Rebecca - I'll be honest and tell you that for my own mental health, I've finally learned to avoid sites like Feministe, Jezebel, or anything written on the subject of breastfeeding or birth/parenting by Hannah Rosin, Jessica Valenti, or Amanda Marcotte (as well as a few other prominent feminists). Last year there was that dustup between Valenti and Gina/TheFeministBreeder precisely over the topic of BFHI being implemented in England and here in the US and there were plenty of references made to "boob nazis" and "lactation bullies" all over supposedly feminist/repro choice websites. Most recently, a couple of days ago I unfollowed a blogger for using the bullies term on a post she wrote for the LifetimeMoms site regarding Bloomberg's new policy. These people give me migraines... and flashbacks to all my struggles trying to get breastfeeding established, maintaining it after I went back to work, and later relactating at 4mo post-partum after a bout of dengue fever that landed me in the hospital for a week. All the while being asked "why don't you just give him some formula?" Too many of the women I've spoken to who have negative feelings about breastfeeding never received the support they needed from their medical care providers! As long as doctors and nurses (and MILs, bosses, friends, and society at large) default to "just give the baby a bottle of formula" whenever there's a problem, breastfeeding rates at 3mo & 6mo post-partum will be less than optimal.<br /><br />And it goes without saying that having access to family leave would help enormously, but it starts with the first few feedings, the first few days and weeks, and that underlying message that if things aren't perfect giving a bottle of formula will somehow work like magic.<br /><br />(and now I'm adding you to the list of bloggers I follow)micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515460909783009171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-22428939275814290342012-08-02T23:17:49.054-04:002012-08-02T23:17:49.054-04:00I think maybe if there are people so concerned tha...I think maybe if there are people so concerned that this "locked up" formula is going to be impossible for them to get and their baby will starve, then maybe they should just plan ahead and bring their own formula to the hospital. After all, they bring the baby's going-home outfit, his car seat, etc... why not bring his food too if they want to formula feed? Aren't moms billed for the formula they use in the hospital? Or is it donated by formula companies and therefore paid for by consumers in the increased cost of that brand of formula in the stores?<br /><br />I am glad to see this happening. If we present breastfeeding as the norm and formula as an extra you have to ask for, then hopefully more hospital staff will begin to truly see and present breastfeeding as the norm.<br /><br />I do think the tea party comment was a bit off-puttish... I don't identify with them, but I am conservative and have many issues with "Obamacare," yet I still can totally get behind the baby-friendly initiatives. Some of us breastfeeding supporters are conservative too, so don't leave us out. ;)Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029296444906951529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-26105531424294519702012-08-02T21:34:47.590-04:002012-08-02T21:34:47.590-04:00love your post! as an OB nurse, I wish the formula...love your post! as an OB nurse, I wish the formula was locked and we had a consent for bottles.As a night shift nurse I see women break down. "Let me take your baby to the nursery so you can sleep" is so common. makes me crazy! I never suggest taking your baby. I don't offer formula. I help moms breast feed.And again, I don't really care how your feed your baby, but if it's your first, I encouragage.Because a new mom has no idea. And it's so depressing to come back the next night and find them with bottles...defeated by the bottle again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-45732346684601683512012-08-02T20:45:46.230-04:002012-08-02T20:45:46.230-04:00@bethday: But the catastrophizing is what sends th...@bethday: But the catastrophizing is what sends this into crazyville, and tells a generation of women who identify as feminists that breastfeeding is not feminist and infant feeding is "all about choice" (where have we heard that rhetoric before?)Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-83477932279534464002012-08-02T20:44:26.655-04:002012-08-02T20:44:26.655-04:00@Micaela: I've definitely seen accusations lik...@Micaela: I've definitely seen accusations like that around the internet, but not specifically on Feministe - if you have links, I'd love to see them.<br /><br />@Anonymous 3:10pm: Isn't it interesting how people are told they need formula because the baby is "too big", and others that they need to give extra formula because the baby is "too small"? What size baby is "just right"??Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-52873323499791147392012-08-02T20:41:22.473-04:002012-08-02T20:41:22.473-04:00@Khyraen: I love your comment! All so true. I have...@Khyraen: I love your comment! All so true. I have been wanting to write a post recently about what I think it takes for a hospital to be truly supportive of BF moms and a lot of what I have thought about, you have written.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589949170980959443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-33822504071048322432012-08-02T17:09:29.326-04:002012-08-02T17:09:29.326-04:00this was an excellent post, thank you! I don't...this was an excellent post, thank you! I don't understand the constant negativity over breastfeeding-promotion efforts, even from people who say they think it's great. I'm not a regular on here so, have you written about the regular accusation I've seen on sites like Feministe that LCs are "lactation bullies"? Because if you haven't, maybe that would be an awesome follow-up post to this.<br /><br />I relate a lot to what Khyraen wrote as my firstborn was born prematurely & was in the NICU for a week. When people say breastfeeding is a choice, they seem to have no understanding of how often that choice is undermined by events and people that aren't under the mother's control at all. When I look back at all I had to overcome to breastfeed my first baby, I'm amazed I made it at all.micaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515460909783009171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-12997196193685749072012-08-02T16:51:36.917-04:002012-08-02T16:51:36.917-04:00Yes! Oh thank you for this article.Yes! Oh thank you for this article.Ghengis Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-43285365432622335912012-08-02T16:22:17.868-04:002012-08-02T16:22:17.868-04:00I didn't send you this one because I didn'...I didn't send you this one because I didn't find it interesting or thought-provoking, just over-the-top catastrophizing. Considering how sensationalized the article was, I'm amazed you had the fortitude to dive into the comments. We've gone back and forth on the issue of bfing and feminism, but even I found this article well into scare-mongering territory.bethdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03050334625478282454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5186597747141068105.post-14162534291765481772012-08-02T15:10:18.409-04:002012-08-02T15:10:18.409-04:00I agree with you 110%. I had no problems with my f...I agree with you 110%. I had no problems with my first baby, other than an overly helpful nursing staff who actually tried to help when we were nursing just fine. They didn't like that I held my breast in the "cigarette hold" and they didn't like that I wasn't mashing him into my boob every time I latched him on. But they were enthusiastic, so I easily forgave them for trying to fix something that wasn't broke. They looked at me and saw a very young single mom who surely needed all the help she could get. Me, I was 22, though I did look like I was about 16, and my mom and aunts breastfed my younger siblings and cousins, it came naturally to me. But with my 2nd child, it was another story. I had a very hard labor, and ended up having in epidural (I had a natural birth with my first and subsequent babes) that didn't work on one half of my body, and worked too well on the other. I couldn't walk for 4 hours after birth, and every time I called a nurse to bring me my baby, I was told he was still in observation in the nursery. They ended up giving him a bottle of formula, getting my husband (his first baby) to agree to it by telling him the baby's sugar was dangerously low and that since my epidural hadn't worn off, I wasn't allowed to breastfeed. Total lies! He was with the baby, and hadn't even known I had been badgering the nurses to bring him to me. When I called the nurse on it, she told me, "There's no way you could make enough milk for a baby that big." He was 9lbs 4oz at birth, yes, but guess what? He was 24lbs by 4 months and still exclusively breastfed! The ignorance is astounding! When the full-time real lactation consultant arrived, whe knew without asking exactly which nurse had done it, and after helping me get him latched on (he had some serious nursing problems the first few weeks!) she said she could hear him swallowing, so my milk was obviously already coming in, that bottle was soooo not necessary!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com